ratherastory: (Assembly)
ratherastory ([personal profile] ratherastory) wrote2011-01-08 07:24 pm

Big Bangs: someone explain the controversy, please?

Okay.

Some of you may have heard about the latest... *looks for a polite word* disturbance in fandom, which on the surface was a discussion about the creation of a Gen Big Bang, which would focus entirely on gen fics. Not as an alternative to the current Big Bang, but simply as an extra one, if you will.

WAIT! Before you go on to tell me everything that was wrong with the OP's post, you can stop right there. I know what was wrong with it, I agree, and that's NOT what this post is about at all. It's tangentially related, at best.

I saw this last year when the [livejournal.com profile] deancasbigbang was created too, and it caught me entirely by surprise.

Why are people viewing the creation of separate, smaller, more specific Big Bangs as an either/or proposition?

No, seriously, I don't understand. It's not like having an extra BB suddenly prevents the other one from existing, or prevents people from participating in it, right? There are lots of people who can't participate in the main BB (the [livejournal.com profile] spn_j2_bigbang) for myriad reasons. (Timing is a big one, especially for people in school, since it coincides with exams and papers and such. Having another large-ish challenge later in the year is a great way for those people to write their long fics and get art for them, if they want it.)

For others, there's no reason they can't do both. I got all excited about it last year, and participated in both, and wrote genfic for both (shocking, I know). I didn't feel like the DCBB people were in any way forcing me out of their sandbox if I didn't have a longish Dean & Cas story to tell (I did, as it happened, but if I didn't I simply wouldn't have signed up). In fact, I was pretty excited about the Big Bangs that proliferated last year -though I will admit that, being newish to fandom last year, I wasn't aware that this wasn't standard practice- because there are few things as thrilling for an author as to get art done for their fic.

So I'm confused about the whole argument about segregating the fandom, or that if there's a separate Gen Big Bang no one outside of gen readers will go read the stories. I mean, aren't people going to cross-post on communities? Maybe not everyone, but those interested in sharing will do it, right? If people have a long, plotty fic, slash or otherwise, that doesn't fit in with, say, the Dean/Cas Big Bang, then they can still write it during that time, can't they? And post it anyway? And maybe, if they're less self-conscious about it than I am, they could ask if someone out there would be willing to do art for them. Maybe. I know I get all twisted in knots about that sort of thing, so I'd understand if it's the same for others. :P

There are other arguments against multiple Big Bangs that make more sense to me. Like, because of the huge amount of work that an author puts into their fic, and because they have to respect their posting date, they often end up producing less fic during the Big Bang season. Same with exchanges and challenges. So that feels like a more valid argument to me: that people are leaving aside ideas because they're too stressed about ongoing "big" projects which have looming deadlines.

What I don't get, like I said, is the notion that somehow this is some sort of twisted, underhanded ploy to divide fandom.

So can someone explain this?


:::ETA:::
...

It occurs to me that this might possibly attract attention. So. As usual, the rules of healthy debate apply here. Please avoid flaming, ad hominem attacks, and the like. Feel free to comment anonymously, but I will screen/delete anonymous replies that are deliberately wanky. JSYK.

[identity profile] jesseofthenorth.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 12:32 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I got nuthin'.
I'm looking forward to a gen big bang and as far as I'm concerned the axiom "More Is Better" definitely applies to this one.
embroiderama: (Dean & Sam - wrestling)

[personal profile] embroiderama 2011-01-09 12:44 am (UTC)(link)
Regarding the recent discussion of the possible gen bigbang, the only reason I saw it being an issue of one versus the other was because I thought the post framed it that way.
Edited 2011-01-09 00:44 (UTC)

[identity profile] lunasky3.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 12:48 am (UTC)(link)
I somehow never run into OR understand ANY fandom drama. Don't know if I'm lucky or naive.

Fandom should never be opposed to other people "doing their own thing" because it's such a "do your own thing" concept in the first place. Wank is never good unless it's the British definition. Hate is never good unless it leads to sexy hate sex. Orgies all around!

*sings kumbaya with 5.04 Cas*

[identity profile] elizah-jane.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 12:53 am (UTC)(link)
I think part of it is the underlying implication that the spn_j2_bigbang isn't inclusive enough. (The exception to this would be the rpf bigbang b/c at least as of last year, one of the J's had to be part of the main pairing/story).

The other part I think is like, hmmm. Take the delicious thing for example. Delicious is pretty much the default bookmarking site for fandom, right? And then there was news that it was shutting down and people were looking for replacements. There ended up being four or five different sites different people were using. With things spread out like that, it's harder to find what you're looking for, or stumble on something you weren't looking for, but ended up really liking.

I think rather than attracting more readers, having so many different bbs means people are less likely to give something a chance. It makes it easier to ignore as a whole. Some people like that, some people don't, but I think in terms of readership, the main bb is still your (general you) best shot.

It's all a ymmv thing, but as far as I see it, those are the main points of contention.

[identity profile] debbiel66.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 12:54 am (UTC)(link)
The only thing I can think of is that for most people, writing a BB would be a once-a-year only undertaking. (For me, that is!) So I would have to choose if I was going to do a single BB.

For you, on the other hand... ;)

*envies your productivity*

[identity profile] de-nugis.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:03 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I was among those who had problems with that particular post, but no problem with the general idea of a Gen BB. I do like having one major challenge that produces several of the kinds of fic I like, so I wouldn't like to see the main BB become less popular as authors who have limited time for large projects decided to do other challenges, but I can think of several ways of having the multiplication of challenges work that wouldn't have that result. Shorter lengths, for one. I think lots of people who are working their way up to long fic would like to have 10K to 15K or 15K to 20K sized challenges. And trying to stagger the posting time would be good, so that the challenges aren't all happening at once.

But, yeah, I don't really go for the splintering arguments. I think of it as being like academic conferences. There's usually one or two big conferences per field, but that doesn't stop there being a ton of others on narrower topics or regional associations or whatever.

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:12 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, that sort of makes sense. I don't know where people are getting the idea the spn_j2_bigbang isn't inclusive (except maybe for that one rule about one of the Js having to be the focus of a RPF story/pairing, which rules out rarer pairings like, I dunno, Misha/Richard or something... and I just realized you said that in your comment and thus I fail at reading comprehension). I certainly never felt like I couldn't write a gen fic or a femmeslash or whatever, even if most people appeared to be writing RPF or wincest.

The delicious thing is a good example, so thank you! I didn't realize things got so spread out, but maybe that's because I watch way too many comms for my own good. ;)

I don't know. There's so much fic in this fandom that even if I spent all my time reading I'd never get through it all. I just look for summaries that pique my interest, and assumed other people did that too.

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:14 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, the framing was really unfortunate, but a few others also mentioned it in different venues and reminded me that the same thing was said of the DCBB last year.

[livejournal.com profile] dante_s_hell was very specific about it NOT being an either/or thing, though, so it all made me wonder.

[identity profile] icelily01.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:14 am (UTC)(link)
I have no idea where this all went down or what the original post actually said. So I can't comment on that.

I can see it being a problem in that for some people the idea of ONE big bang is like OMG HOW WILL I EVER PULL THIS OFF (see: me). Where as for others, it's like Hell, what's another 20k? (see: you :P). So in that way, maybe a little problem as far as division from the original.

But if it's about story content alone, not a big deal. Everyone should have a place to go where they feel like what they specifically want to write will be appreciated/accepted.

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:15 am (UTC)(link)
I was looking forward to it too, but I'm worried that the rest of that post is going to bury it in wank, now. :(

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:16 am (UTC)(link)
Heh.

Well, I was thinking it might be a question of timing, you know? The regular BB takes place in the first half of the year, so a BB set later on would give other people a chance to write a longfic if they didn't have time between January and May, or whatever.

[identity profile] jesseofthenorth.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
Well that would really suck.
I love good gen fic it's what brought me to LJ in the first place and frankly it's getting a bit hard to find. That is not me bitching about slash that is me wanting more than just slash. And wishing it was easier to find.

[identity profile] jesseofthenorth.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:20 am (UTC)(link)
I just went to the original thread see the state of affairs and find it is locked. I guess the wankfest got a little loud :(

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:20 am (UTC)(link)
Exactly. I'm all on board with the notion of a Gen BB, and the rest of the content of that post is, at this point, not something I'm willing to put/discuss in this LJ.

I took part, peripherally anyway, in RaceFail '09 with my regular LJ, and learned a hell of a lot, and have no desire to re-create that in my fandom LJ. This is all fandom, all the time in here, after all. ;) It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't feel this is the venue for it.

I think of it as being like academic conferences. There's usually one or two big conferences per field, but that doesn't stop there being a ton of others on narrower topics or regional associations or whatever.

That's a great analogy! *files it for future reference*

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
LOL

Yeah, I can see how that would be an issue. I like the idea of challenges being staggered a bit, so people who are crazy-busy now can still do a big project like that later on down the road.

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I saw that too. There was a great deal of anger about the way the proposal was framed, and subsequent defence of the framing in comments, and I think it was attracting more attention than the OP wanted.

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
I dunno, I haven't seen a real lack of genfic, but then I'm still catching up on fandom. :)

[identity profile] jesseofthenorth.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:25 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe I'm looking the wrong places?

[identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:33 am (UTC)(link)
Possibly. I also have a lot of gen writers on my flist, and maybe I don't read as much as you do?

[identity profile] elizah-jane.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:33 am (UTC)(link)
More than that, it seems like people use it as an excuse to try something they might not otherwise write because of the exposure it does get (which is one of the things I like about it).

Ha! That's actually another good example. I have a few comms that I follow, but generally I end up skimming supernaturalfic or the newsletter vs. more specialized comms.

I think people do, but I think they're much less likely to if everything is in a different place. People who prefer X for the most part probably aren't going to watch a challenge devoted solely to Y, and might miss an intriguing story because of it.
ext_19515: by: art_in_disguise (OpenBook)

[identity profile] faunaana.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
Where would would reverse_bb fit into this? I mean, if we're talking about a staggered year of bbs, how would that work? spnj2bb, dcbb, reversebb, a gen bb - that's..........a lot, especially for readers. This seems framed from a writer POV, but as an avid reader, I would just be EXHAUSTED from reading hundreds and hundreds of 20K+ fics, on top of summergen and spnj2xmas, and other fests, on top of episode tags, on top of comment fics, on top of regular writing that occurs every week.

WHEW, that's overload. Which is an embarrassment of riches, to be sure. It's just, WHOA, reader exhaustion could set in very quickly. There's no way I could keep up with that. So for me, I advocate keeping it as one entity simply so that I can pace myself. Otherwise, I might find myself just giving up on one fest since another one is starting - which would lead me to maybe missing lots of good fic at the end of the fest - or not having the energy to deal with a new one because I'm worn out from a previous one, or saving myself for one yet to come.

Anyway, my thoughts from a reader perspective :) (btw, I've moved on from coffee to ginger ale, way more soothing ;) )

[identity profile] jesseofthenorth.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:37 am (UTC)(link)
Well I do read a lot . One of my main resources for new Gen is the spnnewsletter and it seems like most of the time there is 3 times as much slash as Gen . Which is fine it's just that sometimes I'd really like something gen and long to sink my teeth into and I can't usually find anything new, easily anyway. A Gen Bigbang would take care of that very nicely.

[identity profile] yggdrasilian.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:54 am (UTC)(link)
Haha, I'm with you; I somehow seem to miss everything. :O
I hate wank, so I think I'll consider myself lucky. ;)

[identity profile] yggdrasilian.livejournal.com 2011-01-09 01:58 am (UTC)(link)
I agree! I STILL haven't read all of the Big Bang fics from last year (nor from the previous years), let alone all of the Christmas fics...and the regular fics...and the... X(
I LOVE having so much awesome fic to choose from, but at the same time it's a little frustrating that I can't keep up, lol. ^^;

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