ratherastory | While I'm on the topic of 5.13

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While I'm on the topic of 5.13

Dear Supernatural,

Please to stop killing your wimmens.

Seriously.

I'm going to start taking it personally at this point. Just because one part of fandom hates the female characters you introduce (here's a hint: fandom is BATSHIT CRAZY and you should ignore them!), that doesn't mean you should automatically kill them off the minute they start being strong, interesting and independent.

No love,

Me

Heck, I don't like Anna. I just don't want her to be dead. I DID like Ellen and Jo, and I'm really pissed that they essentially died for nothing. Why the HELL did they kill off Pamela? That was completely narratively uninteresting.

In short, if you're a woman on Supernatural you may as well be wearing a red shirt and wandering away from the party.

This isn't a deal-breaker for me, because I do love the show otherwise. Still, it pisses me off.

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I agree completely. Anna wasn't really evil. She was trying to stop the apocalypse the only way she knew how. Wouldn't it have been interesting if they'd found a way to stop her and maybe get her on their side?

Exactly. I didn`t even care much about Anna. I thought she was already dead. But ... arrgh not again.

I'm not trying to be combative or anything. I just want to point out that everyone dies on Supernatural, men included. The only reason Chuck hasn't died is that archangel; Becky isn't important enough to be killed; you can't kill Bobby; Cas already has died; and everyone else is dead. (I'm not sure if Meg is dead or alive. I'm assuming we'll see her again.) I'm surprised Show let Jo and Ellen live as long as they did. Everyone on Supernatural eventually ends up dead. So while I do agree that our show kind of sucks at representing women, I don't think the death thing is just picking on them.

It's so true. I keep introducing women in my fanfic just because I need some estrogen around! otherwise there's too much testosterone. Sometimes you need a woman around, you know?

Gnarr.

It's one of the few things that REALLY annoys me about the show. The rule of thumb seems to be: if you're a woman, you have a 70% chance of dying. If you're a woman and a recurring character, those odds go up to a 90% chance of dying or better.

Feh.

Feh. I am annoyed at the show for the pretty much gratuitous killing of anything and everything female.

Seriously, the only recurring female character who's not dead now is BECKY.

Well, there`s Meg too, but she doesn`t resemble Season 1 Meg much.

Well, the death thing is a bit of a shortcut to saying that the show sucks at representing women in general.

The essential difference is that, while everyone dies on SPN, the men get to come back and the women don't. Sam, Dean and Castiel all got resurrected. Not so much with any of the women (the demons come back, but then they get killed/exorcised again).

I forgot about Meg, but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that she gets killed by the end of the season.

I really, really wish that the show would let one recurring female character stick around. She wouldn't even have to be a major character or show up that much.

Hell, I would love it if Missouri showed up again. Just once. Without dying.

I know! I keep wanting to introduce happy, healthy, well-adjusted women in my fiction, too. I love reading good OFCs, too.

I really, REALLY want the Show to fix that aspect of itself. Why do all the men get to cheat death but the women don't?

I forgot about Meg. I bet you anything she'll be dead by the end of the season, though. :P

I loved Anna, even though she was trying to kill Sam - which, I have to admit, is at least a decent plan, and she was trying to save the world so I really don't know where Michael gets off killing her. Plus her death was so... I don't know. Terrible? She didn't deserve it. At least Ellen and Jo went out as heroes (imho). Anna, who's been the only really good angel from beginning to end died as a "villian". I wish Castiel hadn't stopped Sam and Dean seeing her. Honestly. Grr.

Still. I love this show. *is so fickle*

Also, if they kill Becky or Meg (especially Becky) I will throw SUCH a fit.

*joins you in being fickle*

I just wish they'd let some of the recurring female characters live. :(

I'm predicting Meg will be dead by the end of this season.

Someone else said that Becky is too unimportant to kill, and I'm inclined to agree.

I kind of see it from both sides. With Supernatural, you can really argue that in fact, there never really has been a main female character. I would say Ruby probably came the closest, however, being a demon, her fate was more or less sealed from the start. Other female characters have been recurring, of course, but in effect they are all peripheral. I don't think Ellen or Jo made a single appearance for the better part of season 3 and all of season 4 (I could be wrong, but they did have a rather extended absence). On that same note, Supernatural tends to off most of the perhiphal characters, male or female, hence, girls being mainly peripheral, tend to get the whack. That said, I'm certainly not defending the fact that women keep getting killed. I'm still upset about Ellen. But I think the solution really comes down to the fact that Supernatural really needs a main female character who is not expendable.

But then again, half the reason I watch this show is for the male eye candy, so really, I can't complain. :)

The fact that I can see the rationale behind the wanton killing of all things female is why it's not a deal-breaker for me. I love the show —it's better than most of what's out there and is funny and sharp and incisive.

I just wish that once they'd figure out a way to have a recurring female character who doesn't have to die. :P

Yeah, I agree with you there. There absolutely should be at least a couple more recurring characters who don't get offed. I mean, other than Bobby and Chuck. :)

Oh, and just a quick add on to that, the only character death that has really bothered me to date is Ellen, and Jo to a lesser extent. But I can see the rationale for killing off the rest; which just comes back down to the fact that the show has really never had a female character who was not expendable.

Meh. I'm just rambling at this point. *LOL*

I was really upset by Jo and Ellen's deaths, but they were really well-written, so I'm sort of kind of mostly okay with that.

The one that really annoyed me? Pamela. WHY? It made so very little sense to kill her, and she was a great secondary character.

I honestly never had much of an opinion of Pamela, so I can't say her death really bothered me that much. Although, I agree with you that her death was essentially pointless. But again, that comes back to the same issue: these characters aren't developed enough or at least aren't prominent enough for the audience to gain any sort of opinion either way.

I was really looking forward to seeing them develop Pamela as a character. She was smart, funny, independent, and not afraid to express herself.

I miss Missouri and Tamara for the same reason. I'm still kind of hoping one of them will turn up again.

I'm still thinking that there might be a chance that some of them might get resurrected. Silly as it sounds, it is Supernatural after all. We can't really assume that every character is dead for good. *LOL*

I agree that it would be great for one female character to stick around. I wish Show had better utilized the awesome characters of Jo and Ellen, because they could have done a LOT more with the two of them.

I really do get upset with the way Show represents women; I think what upsets me more than the women dying is that they're so rarely involved enough with the plot or the boys to be brought back, you know? Except Meg, who, I agree, is most likely going to be offed in the near future. I can't see them ending the show with Meg still alive.

I think, though, that all the women who died
did it to emphasize that everyone involved with the Winchesters ends up killed. And it wasn't just women--Ash, Andy, Pastor Jim, all these great characters I wanted to know more about. I do really want to see more of Jess and find out more about her relationship with Sam. Like you said in an earlier post, we know so little about that relationship. I was so interested in that tiny clip they gave us in Free to Be You and Me, and I wish we could see more of her.

I'm pretty much a feminist and I wish Ellen and Jo had stayed around longer, but I actually think unless you're Bobby (and let's hope he survives sweeps), Sam, Dean, or Castiel your time is numbered on Supernatural regardless of sex. They kill off all their secondary characters...case in point - the guys, Andy, John, Henrickson, Gordon, Ash, Uriel, Alastair, YED and then the girls Ellen, Jo, Pam, Anna, Ava, Ruby, and Meg. (And I suppose you could count Jessica and Mary in you want, although they keep showing back up!) Anyways. Just my opinion.

Being a secondary character on Supernatural sucks out loud, yes.

It's just that the only four characters to ever survive are white guys. Now, we ALL get that the boys are the heart and soul of the show and they will never be permanently killed. That's fine and dandy and more than okay by me.

I just want to know why Bobby and Cas get to survive but no women (and no visible minorities for that matter).

Like I said, it's not a deal-breaker. I just think that some of the deaths were unnecessary and twitch-inducing.

I get your feelings and I agree with them to some extent, I just don't feel its aimed at female characters. I believe I read Cas was only supposed to be in a few episodes and then get killed off - but fans took to him so well he was kept on. And Ruby made it two seasons even if she wasn't all that popular. As for Bobby, there might be riots in the fandom if were killed. I certainly agree that more of the secondary characters could have survived and I so wanted Henrickson and Pam to make it - their deaths seemed unnecessary to me. But Kripke seems dead set on killing off everyone. I think he wants to isolate the boys as much as possible. I don't know if it will make you feel better about the killing off of characters - but so far Rufus and Meg are still alive (although I think I listed her as dead above.) And with spn there is always the chance any of the deceased might turn up again! Sorry to ramble, but I do find these discussions interesting. Okay...I'm off to read some fanfic where good things happen, there are good times, and people are saved.

That above comment was a little longer than I intended it to be (: And please know I respect your opinion and enjoy reading your blog and fic!

Oh, no worries. I am all about open discussion of the show, and people are totally allowed to disagree with me so long as everyone plays nice in my sandbox. :)

I feel the same about the portrayal of women - it p's me off, but it's not a deal-breaker because SPN is so much more intelligent and better written than the vast majority of TV. I had a little cry when Ellen and Jo died, I have to say, and I thought Ruby was brilliant. If they kill Becky I will be...very angry (oooh, I bet CW's scared, lol). Then I kind of feel hypocritical that I'm basically glad Castiel's alive so I can look at his pretty face some more. Eh...

Not a deal-breaker, but I do end up doing a lot of impotent fist-waving at the TV screen. ;)

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While I'm on the topic of 5.13

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yeah, pretty much

Re: yeah, pretty much