Fandom perplexes me

[ratherastory]

I shouldn't read LJ during the wee hours of the morning.

I stumbled across a comment about Season 5, to the effect of the poster "missing" SPN, which she (I assume) hasn't watched lately. The end of the comment was "I miss not hating Sam."

...

I don't get it.

It's poor form to start a conversation at 5:00 am in someone else's LJ which has the potential to turn into a not-very-nice debate, so instead I'm going to vent here.


What show are people watching that they can hate either of the brothers? It's obviously not the same show I've been watching all year. Clearly they or I live in some parallel universe where the show is not the same.

Yes, everyone has made spectacularly shitty decisions: Sam, Dean (Castiel and Bobby and Ellen and Jo and... well, all of them at some point or another). But that's what being human is all about.

I hurt for these boys every time they show up. They're so screwed up and they're both trying so, so hard to make things right, and sometimes they try so hard that they go cross-eyed from being too close to the situation and they fuck things up even more. I yell at my TV, cry for them, cringe for them, and very often find myself clutching the nearest cat for comfort.

But never, not ONCE, not even when Sam was choking Dean, or when Dean was telling Sam that he'd never be able to forgive him, did I hate either of the boys.

All that happened was that I got my heart broken. And, as messed up as that is, that's why I love the show and keep coming back.

I don't get it.

Comments

[haruslex.livejournal.com]

I'm a member again now although I don't follow it, but this is the kind of thing that made me leave the deancastiel community back when 5x18 aired. I remember this squee post where I read through page, after page, after page of people going on about how much Dean deserved to be beaten to a pulp. And I was like o_O BUT I LOVE HIM!

So I get your not getting it.

[27-jaredjensen.livejournal.com]

Wow.

I don't get that either...that's one of the great thing about the show, that Sam and Dean are HUMAN and they do try to do what they think is right and sometimes its not, but everyone makes mistakes!!

It makes me sad, but I've seen a TON of comment like that, mostly hating on Sam, and I'm like, what?! How can you hate him?

Thanks for venting here, so we can vent along with you very early in the morning:)

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

I must have missed that post.

Then again, I am usually well-blinkered when it comes to fandom harshing my squee. ;)

It's just that it's 5:00 and I've been working all night and I am ALL EMO NOW. Because that's what night shifts do to me.

I've seen both sides: people hating Sam, and people hating Dean, and I just. don't. get it.

Mind you, people on ff.net have accused me of hating Dean a few times. I'm not sure how they got that from my fic, but whatever. Maybe there are hidden layers I'm not seeing or something.

If you'll excuse me, I am going to go back and write more fic and squee quietly to myself about the show to make myself feel better. :)

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

*glomps you*

*clings*

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY HATE SAMMY! *cries*

Okay, I'm a little better now. Night shift screws with my head. ;)

[katwoman76.livejournal.com]

What??? How can anyone in their right mind hate sweet not-so-little Sammy???
*hides Sammy protectively behind myself*
*clings to all the sane people who hate stupid haters*

Okay, I'm a Sam-girl and have been from the start, so I don't get hating him anyway, but I also couldn't understand hate against any of the other guys.
It's okay to have other favorites - to each their own.
But that doesn't justify being hateful to the others.

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

I know!

Poor Sammy. *wraps him in a blanket and feeds him tea*

Favourites I can understand (although I don't really have a favourite between the boys, myself). But hatred? BAH, I say.

[27-jaredjensen.livejournal.com]

*cries along*

Its okay cause I still love Sammy and that's all that matter:)

Also, I very much enjoy your Jensen-hater-to-the-left picture.

And, I just notcied before clicking here from your LJ page, your Sammy icon in the post above this, the one about your writing projects? Its so adorable, baby-face Sam, and how on earth can anyone hate our beautiful Sammy so much?

Okay, NOW I think I'm done. Carry on.

[harrigan.livejournal.com]

What you wrote here? Is why I ♥ you so very much! Word for word = that's what's in my head/heart, too!

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

I like to be an ostrich as much as possible, hiding my face in the warm bibro sand. I mean, I've been furious at characters in the show, and sometimes annoyed at characterization by the show, but I only yell at them when they are being idiots because I love them.

Don't ever go near TWOP. That is my most earnest life advice. I discovered it before LJ, so even when LJ gets hostile, it feels kind of warm and balanced by contrast.

Now, if by hate Sam people mean "inflict horrible physical and emotional damage on Sam for my entertainment and that of others," I'm off to ohsam to do some hate prompting right now . . .

[ash48.livejournal.com]

To not love either of them is IMPOSSIBLE! Even when the writers make them do awful things to each other.... it's just not possible to hate them. Either of them, but especially Sam (who seems to get the brunt of it).

And it's never made any sense to me either.

And that's why I hang around Sam (and Dean) lovers!! <33

[crayola-fics.livejournal.com]

Man, I've gotta say, I agree with you whole-heartedly. Yeah, the characters were never perfect, but those were the things I loved about them. The most important thing is I really felt like they learned from all of their mistakes and moved passed them.

[primrose-1.livejournal.com]

It hurts to see them make mistakes, but oh no, I couldn't ever hate them. I love those boys!

[liliaeth]

Honestly, I love Dean too much to hate Sam. He'd never want anyone to hate his little brother, regardless of what Sam did or didn't do.*eg*

[little-tristan.livejournal.com]

I'm mostly out of the fandom because of all the Sam-haters. Suddenly it was like everyone wanted it to be the Dean and Cas show, and that's not what I thought it was supposed to be. It's certainly not how the actual show really looks when I watch it. Even Dean doesn't hate Sam. It would be easier on him if he could. Basically, fandom strives to twist the show into what it wants it to be. (How many times have you seen Castiel's line to Dean about giving up everything "for you" used as evidence of their supreme connection, without the end of the sentence "for you, for your family"? Because it was never just about Dean.)

But what really perplexes me is the sentence: I miss not hating Sam. The grammar is really confusing. It sounds like she used to not hate Sam but now she does and longs for the good old days of loving him. But your post implies that that's not the context. Anyway, I doubt anyone could watch the S5 finale and still hate him, even if they did before. Even though fandom does badly want to make Dean both the hero and the victim of Sam's sacrifice. I don't understand any of it.

[rainylemons.livejournal.com]

You know how I feel about this very subject!

[roque-clasique.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, that would be my LJ. I knew said commenter was a Dean!girl, a very strident, Sam-disliking Dean!girl at that, which is why I warned her not to watch the finale, knowing it would upset her.

You just keep on loving, bb. I would say I'm pretty bi-bro myself, when it comes right down to it.

[mollyamory.livejournal.com]

What show are people watching that they can hate either of the brothers? It's obviously not the same show I've been watching all year.

I know! This baffles me so much!

When I first started watching the show, I was not Sam's number one fan. At the time, I was far more invested in his relationship with Dean than Sam seemed to be. :) But that was years ago, and so much has happened now, and every single thing either of them do is out of love for each other -- even when objectively, it shouldn't be. Even when to the other one, it doesn't look like it.

I mean, there's an entire war between Heaven and Hell being fought and won in seasons 4 and 5 because of how much these two guys love each other

How can anybody hate either of them? Especially when they're both hurting so much all the damn time?

I <3 <3 <3 them both. And while there are some things that happened to them that I've hated in the past two years, and some things they've done that broke my heart, that all just kind of makes me love them both even more.

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

I don't actually know what TWOP is, so I think I'm safe.

Yay prompts!

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

*glomps you*

I was being DIPLOMATIC and not saying where I saw it. :D

I don't get how you can be a Dean!girl and not love Sam (it's part of the package! Dean wouldn't want that!), but everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Some opinions are just wrong, is all. ;)

I thought Dean got a fantastic role in the finale, but then, I'm a little biased (also: Dean!whump!)

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

Think fandom is crazy now? Try making an 'I don't understand the hate' post like this and then finding out you've been threaded multiple times at the anon meme for being an 'entitled bitch who thinks everyone who doesn't agree with her opinion of the show is doing it wrong.'

^.^

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

*wibbles*

I haven't, have I? That was you, right? With that awesome meta post you did a few months back?

*does NOT go check the anonmeme out of an extreme sense of paranoia*

[lavinialavender.livejournal.com]

Amen to this. One hundred percent. I've been very angry at the boys (especially Dean when he threw the amulet away), but I never hated them, not even then, because I knew Dean was in the most awful fucked-up headspace and just look at what he's been through in the last four/forty-four years. I don't even hate Sam for all of his S4 behavior, because I understood he had also lost his soul and sanity when Dean died, and he was having extreme difficulty recapturing them, even with Dean still around. They break my hearts; they don't ever make me hate them.

So yeah, fuck that bitch. I love my brilliant, rational corner of fandom.

[mimblexwimble.livejournal.com]

If you can't find it in yourself to at least care for both characters to a certain degree, I think you're missing out on a lot of what the show is about. How can you possibly claim to love or understand one brother while hating the other, knowing full well how much each means to the other?

Being disappointed in a character; that's normal. And sane. Hating them? I don't know why you'd want to waste the energy. Do they really enjoy feeling that way?

[agent-jl36.livejournal.com]

True dat sister. Amen.

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

Lol, don't worry, it's always me. ;)

[saschi212.livejournal.com]

All that happened was that I got my heart broken. And, as messed up as that is, that's why I love the show and keep coming back.
Me, too! I don't get how you can love Dean without loving Sam, and vice versa, because they define each other--Sam makes Dean who he is, so how can you not love Sam if you understand Dean at all?! I don't even know.

[sothcweden.livejournal.com]

I don't understand it either. If there was hating to be done, frankly, I wouldn't be in fandom. There's enough stuff in life that ticks me off, I'm not going to go searching for it! Both boys are boneheaded idiots sometimes, but they're human, and fallible, and trying so hard that hating them just seems like kicking someone when they're down.

[charis-kalos.livejournal.com]

Don't get it either. Over the past five years I've realised that I relate to the boys as a big sister/pastor - so I hurt when they're hurting, and get immensely frustrated when they make bad decisions, and love them. Possibly a bit too much, given they're fictional characters.

My reaction when they're being stupid is to desperately want to pastor them (I wish that Pastor Jim was still around, because in my mind he pastored them when they were growing up the way I would have).

The idea of hating either of them is incomprehensible to me - but then, as the previous paragraphs make clear, I'm a little insane. I worry about and want to pastorally care for fictional characters. I'm part of the crazy that is fandom.

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

I understand that. I often act as a mentor for people around my age/slightly younger than me, and I keep wanting to take them both under my wing and point out the error of their ways too.

And, um, yes. Fictional characters. I know this. Really.

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

LOL. Speak of the devil.

From the day I made this comment:

"Tahirire seemed like a nice enough person when I first got to know her and but eventually revealed herself to be a pretty impressive bitch who has absolutely no respect for anyone who doesn't regard canon in exactly the same way that she does."

See? What'd I tell you.

(I know, links or it didn't happen ... but I don't like to feed the trolls.)

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

I think being called a bitch means you've officially arrived in fandom.

The anon meme feeds into my potential for extreme paranoia, so I try to avoid it, even if sometimes there's actual rational conversation there sometimes. :)

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

My response was pretty much something like, "Hey, at least I'm impressive! ^.^"