ratherastory | Fandom definitions: non-con and dub-con

Hola, flist!

Okay, I can no longer claim to be new to fandom (damn, has it really been almost a year and a half?), but there are still aspects that I find hard to define/quantify/whatever.

This has popped up lately because of a problematic fic (which I haven't read, I will hasten to point out), in which there is apparently an issue of consent. Without getting into the actual debate about posting warnings (for the record, in fandom my rule of thumb is "better safe than sorry" and "add warnings if your readers inform you that they found the material triggering"), I would like to clarify the whole notion of dub-con and non-con.

"Dub-con" is something I had never heard of before fandom. I used to be a pretty active member of a feminist group back when I was in university (yes, back in the dark ages), and so as far as I was concerned, until I got into fandom, the issue of consent was pretty cut-and-dried. No means no, is the catchphrase I live by. Being pressured into sex means no. Being drugged unconscious before sex means no. Feeling like you have no choice but to have sex means no. No means that any attempt to have sex with you is an attempted rape. A husband who has sex with his wife when she tells him she's not in the mood is, in fact, committing rape. In short, I err on the side of caution when it comes to that.

Okay, so rape is not a term I see often in the warnings for fic. Rape usually gets translated into "non-con." Which, okay, I can understand, because the term itself can be triggery.

So what, exactly, constitutes dub-con? I figure this HAS to be a grey area, so I'm curious to hear opinions on the matter. Readers, what do you consider dub-con? Writers, when do you decide to warn for dub-con?

Also, if you feel like staying anonymous, that's fine, just keep it civilized. :)

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Dub-con and non-con are the majority of what I write in the SPN fandom. I've heard a lot of readers say that they'll read dub-con, but not non-con, though I just see dub-con as a class of non-con.

In most cases it's still rape, it just has more of a mental focus. I think the only 'dub-con' I've written where I wouldn't say it was still rape was a scenario where Sam and Dean had to have sex with each other to stop a spell that would otherwise kill them. Neither of them wanted to do it, but they agreed they had to.

I put the warning of 'non-con' on anything in which Dean is physically incapacitated (drugged, restrained, forced down etc.) and is trying to escape the situation. I use 'dub-con' when it's not something he wants, but he agrees to go along with it under duress (i.e. if he doesn't do it Sam will get hurt). It's still no, it's still rape but in the given scenario he's not fighting it.

So as far as the scenarios you mentioned, I equate the being mentally pressured into sex scenario as 'dub-con' – fictionally speaking of course.

I was waiting for you to jump in with your personal definition! :)

Ha! Probably wasn't too hard to guess that I've thought about the subject a couple of times... When I started writing dub-cons I actually labeled them all as non-con because that's what they were in my head, but then I came across the dub-con term and realized that was the more appropriate category per fandom after perusing a bunch of awesomely helpful posts like this one.

I've heard a lot of readers say that they'll read dub-con, but not non-con
I'm the opposite. If it's clearly labelled as non-con, I at least know exactly what I will get. If it's labelled as dub-con, I'm much more cautious because too many times I stumbled over non-con that the writer tried to sell as consent with that label.

I'm the same way -- I'll read noncon, but not dubcon because with noncon, I know EXACTLY what I'm getting into.

That's a really smart way to go - I'll admit to being wholly insensitive to the subject on a fictional level, but if I really thought about it, I've definitely read more than a few 'dub-con's that even I would have classed as flat out non-cons. Specifically, when it’s full on non-con but the character being raped ends up 'liking' it and therefore it somehow becomes dub-con...even insensitive me has a really hard time with that scenario.

Huh, maybe these definitions of dubcon/noncon are specific to people who read and write a lot of dubcon/noncon fic, because that's the way I see and use it, too. (Though after reading this post, I think I'm just going to blanket-label these sort of fic under "consent issues.")

The fact that it varies so much between folks and how different everyone's level of sensitivity does make it hard to warn for it in a way that works for all readers. I should have my definition on my fic master list just so that new readers know how I'm classing them.

I'm never quite sure what to expect when I see fics with the 'consent issues' label only because to me it sounds very mild - like one of the boys pushing their drunk brother a little further than he might go sober sort of thing - yet I did once see it used for a clear cut rape. But certainly it’s a good catch all term that could be applied to anything in or bordering the non-con category of fics.

Fandom definitions: non-con and dub-con

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