ratherastory (
ratherastory) wrote2010-10-14 10:09 am
Entry tags:
It really is like a train wreck...
Made the mistake of peeking at my BB thread on the anon meme, and am sort of... I dunno. "Depressed" is too strong a word, because so many lovely NON-anons have come around and given great feedback, a lot of it specific.
The anon meme, OTOH, seems to have had two responses to it. The first was "OMG I had the basic concept therefore the fic cannot be good and I'm not even going to bother!" And the second one was "But she never resolved the mystery!" And apart from one person who enjoyed it, the overall response was "meh."
Damned with faint praise, in short.
The sane part of me is telling me I shouldn't go read that thread at all. The not-so-sane part can't look away, and I keep having to tell myself to sit on my hands because I keep wanting to actually engage in discussion. Like, how resolving the "central mystery or gimmick" as they put it was so very much not the point of the fic, for instance. (One commenter accused me of trying to set up a "cracky spin-off.")
So much for my poor one-off exploration of the relationship between Cas and Dean. ;)
I read a few other reviews out of curiosity, and it really feels as though the anon meme reviewers are determined not to enjoy anything they read. "Damned with faint praise" seems to be the default mode.
There's an expression in French for that, which is "Bouder son plaisir." I'm not sure exactly how to translate that, except as the willful denying of pleasure to oneself. That is, even if you liked something (and I'm not saying the anons liked my story, it's just a theory based on my perception of maybe a dozen or so BB threads), you purposefully seek out the flaws in order to hand in a final verdict of "meh."
And of course, the REALLY paranoid part of me is having conniptions about my fic actually being really terrible and all my friends being too polite to tell me. Which I KNOW is BS, don't worry! It's not rational, and I'm actually very proud of the story. But MEEP!
Okay. I'm going to make breakfast, and try not to obsess. Today's project is the
spn_reversebang. Wish me luck!
:::ETA:::
I am kind of weirded out that this post has now made it into that thread. It's my LJ, folks! I can bitch about authorial intent if I want to! What you do with it subsequently is your own affair, but I get to voice my opinions any way I want to! :P
/end random pseudo-rant
:::FURTHER ETA:::
JFC, anon-meme! Am I supposed to apologize for having an opinion now? Aww, poor meme doesn't like it that I was unthrilled with their honest opinions about my fic. I don't like the word "butthurt" for many reasons, but it does spring to mind, especially since it seems to be a favourite of yours. :P
Apparently my posts like these foster anti-anon-meme sentiments. Oh noes! Because I'm sure people wouldn't have these opinions if I didn't post first. *snort* I think you overestimate my ability to influence people, there.
I will HAPPILY cop to the fact that I do enjoy the head-pats and virtual cookies I get about my fic when I post. I am a comment-whore when it comes to my fic and have never made a secret of it. Neurotic? Me? Why, yes. I do like to think that I'm at least a wee bit entertaining about it. Maybe not in this particular post, but in others.
I'd like to point out that nowhere in this post did I rend my clothes, gnash my teeth and wail that the anon-meme was meeeeeaaaan to me. I just said that I was disappointed at what I perceived to be an overwhelmingly indifferent response to my fic (admittedly, there are apparently more positive comments later on that I didn't see). I really don't think that's so very terrible of me. No author wants to be thought of as "meh," do they? It turns out that "meh" is equivalent to a positive signed comment elsewhere, but since I'm not a frequent visitor to the meme, I was unaware of this subtle aspect to the art of being an anonymous commenter. I'm not sure I'm going to thank anyone for that, mind you.
Beyond that? My LJ, meme. I can post what I want (within the TOS, obviously), and if other people choose to air anti-meme sentiments within the post, that's not my doing.
I'm probably going to regret this edit later on, but whatever. Early-morning posting is second only to drunken-posting for later regrets, right?
The anon meme, OTOH, seems to have had two responses to it. The first was "OMG I had the basic concept therefore the fic cannot be good and I'm not even going to bother!" And the second one was "But she never resolved the mystery!" And apart from one person who enjoyed it, the overall response was "meh."
Damned with faint praise, in short.
The sane part of me is telling me I shouldn't go read that thread at all. The not-so-sane part can't look away, and I keep having to tell myself to sit on my hands because I keep wanting to actually engage in discussion. Like, how resolving the "central mystery or gimmick" as they put it was so very much not the point of the fic, for instance. (One commenter accused me of trying to set up a "cracky spin-off.")
So much for my poor one-off exploration of the relationship between Cas and Dean. ;)
I read a few other reviews out of curiosity, and it really feels as though the anon meme reviewers are determined not to enjoy anything they read. "Damned with faint praise" seems to be the default mode.
There's an expression in French for that, which is "Bouder son plaisir." I'm not sure exactly how to translate that, except as the willful denying of pleasure to oneself. That is, even if you liked something (and I'm not saying the anons liked my story, it's just a theory based on my perception of maybe a dozen or so BB threads), you purposefully seek out the flaws in order to hand in a final verdict of "meh."
And of course, the REALLY paranoid part of me is having conniptions about my fic actually being really terrible and all my friends being too polite to tell me. Which I KNOW is BS, don't worry! It's not rational, and I'm actually very proud of the story. But MEEP!
Okay. I'm going to make breakfast, and try not to obsess. Today's project is the
:::ETA:::
I am kind of weirded out that this post has now made it into that thread. It's my LJ, folks! I can bitch about authorial intent if I want to! What you do with it subsequently is your own affair, but I get to voice my opinions any way I want to! :P
/end random pseudo-rant
:::FURTHER ETA:::
JFC, anon-meme! Am I supposed to apologize for having an opinion now? Aww, poor meme doesn't like it that I was unthrilled with their honest opinions about my fic. I don't like the word "butthurt" for many reasons, but it does spring to mind, especially since it seems to be a favourite of yours. :P
Apparently my posts like these foster anti-anon-meme sentiments. Oh noes! Because I'm sure people wouldn't have these opinions if I didn't post first. *snort* I think you overestimate my ability to influence people, there.
I will HAPPILY cop to the fact that I do enjoy the head-pats and virtual cookies I get about my fic when I post. I am a comment-whore when it comes to my fic and have never made a secret of it. Neurotic? Me? Why, yes. I do like to think that I'm at least a wee bit entertaining about it. Maybe not in this particular post, but in others.
I'd like to point out that nowhere in this post did I rend my clothes, gnash my teeth and wail that the anon-meme was meeeeeaaaan to me. I just said that I was disappointed at what I perceived to be an overwhelmingly indifferent response to my fic (admittedly, there are apparently more positive comments later on that I didn't see). I really don't think that's so very terrible of me. No author wants to be thought of as "meh," do they? It turns out that "meh" is equivalent to a positive signed comment elsewhere, but since I'm not a frequent visitor to the meme, I was unaware of this subtle aspect to the art of being an anonymous commenter. I'm not sure I'm going to thank anyone for that, mind you.
Beyond that? My LJ, meme. I can post what I want (within the TOS, obviously), and if other people choose to air anti-meme sentiments within the post, that's not my doing.
I'm probably going to regret this edit later on, but whatever. Early-morning posting is second only to drunken-posting for later regrets, right?

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I find that anonymous reviewers as a whole tend to be nastier because they can hide behind the anonymous tag and they don't necessarily have to be constructive. They can be nasty because you can't do anything about them and I think they're just jealous. *sticks out tongue at them like a Kindergartener*
So I say you're awesome and c'est la vie.
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That being said. I wouldn't believe a word they say. I don't give any cred to a person who won't back their criticism up without a user name.
But if I ever had anything discussed over there, I might find myself looking at it, just because curiosity is something I have in droves.
I might look, but I wouldn't believe. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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*clings*
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Dude. *hugs* your fic is very excellent. I'm personally not reading your bigbang because kidfic does not interest me, but your writing is very skilled. You tell great stories about journeys, where the trip is as important as, if not more so, than the conclusion. It's really quite beautiful. And sometimes it's nice to hear that your work is awesome.
Something to remember about anonymous boards - whether it be 4chan or anonymemes or whatever - is that high praise will inevitably get shot down as whiteknighting or friends of the author/OP or whatever, so people are actually hesitant to give praise anonymously. The 'point' of anonymity seems to still be 'an oppurtunity to give criticism without consequences'. The best thing to see on an anonymeme is people failing to give really bad reviews. *hugs*
I hope this helps, as I hail from lurking the /cgl/ board of 4chan, which is possibly the most catty place of all time and I learned a lot about anonymous comments there.
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Good Lord, but that sounds complicated. It's a little sad, too, that any sort of good comments would be automatically dismissed like that. :(
Anyway, thank you!
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I have many issues with anon memes. I don't think they're fair in the slightest. So please, don't take them to heart. Your fics are some of the few that I've actually printed off to save, and that happened even before you and I became friended. Seriously.
Tell 'em to piss off, and if you don't want to, I will. And I'll have no trouble leaving my name for them to see.
~Nebula
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*smishe you*
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but
That anon comm SUCKS BIG TIME! I hate it with a passion. For the very reason of this post... it's so damaging and hurtful and destroys the very thing that fandom thrives on - creativity, passion, the forum to have a go, receiving love and warmth for sharing talents and a sense of celebration. It's mean spirited and people can so easily hid behind being anonymous..... grrrrrrrrr
And as much as people say ignore it, don't go there people do and are invariably hurt. There's no way you'll forget what's been said but you can enjoy the (non anon) comments you have received an enjoyed them. My feeling is that people don't usually lie when commenting. If they don't like it they are more likely not to comment at all.
I didn't read that one because I'm not into Dean and Cas, but I did read the one where John had to choose between his sons and I loved it!! And yes, I have been totally slack and not left a comment because I haven't got around to it, but I'm saying it now. I thought it was great - very engaging and I loved the whole set up.
Anyway. So sorry to rant. It sets my blood boiling when I read that people have been hurt by that place. (I think I'll have to rant on my journal at some stage about it...).
Good luck with RBB. Forget that stupid place and enjoy creating something that many, many people with love.
*steps off soapbox*
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*dies*
And thank you. :)
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In short, I think I'm doing pretty well. It's just the neurotic, paranoid side of me that's having a field day.
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Besides, I know how busy you are these days.
*hugs*
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I wish I had enough gas to burn that stupid pile of steaming anonymous crap to the ground.
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I loved your fic, a lot of people loved your fic, and I really do think people go over to the fic discussions just to bitch. If someone loved something, they'll tell you on the fic itself, not run over to tell a bunch of faceless natterers.
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Hopefully no one pays my reverse big bang enough attention to make one lol
I haven't had a chance to read your fic yet but based on what other things I've read by you, I feel very safe in saying it does not suck by any stretch of the imagination.
Like you said, anon comms exist purely for people to dislike things and bash them without feeling guilt. No one needs an anon comm to talk about how fantastic something was. So...ya know..consider the source I guess :)
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I guess I was just hoping for a reaction other than "meh." :P
That probably makes me a delicate blossom, but oh well.
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What I really want you to think of is that if your writing makes you happy, if you feel satisfied after finishing a story, if you do learn something about your own writing during the time you put down to write - is what is worth most and the biggest reason to continue write.
Somewhere in the beginning of my way to write I had a really bad experience of people taking one of my stories (that I dared to post at a site) and pick it apart and start discuss how bad it was. They seemed not to look at the background for the story or me as a writer. The story was one I did for a challenge where you had a word limit, had to include a few things and you had a deadline. Then I still was quite new to dare to write fanfiction in English as that isn't my first one. Add to that I was even 'greener' to try to add a sex scene in a story. I was happy to managed to pull a story through. But when I saw how they trashed the story and my writing I was very close to give up, but I didn't and I do not care what they think of my writing... everyone can't be a pro and for me it still just a hobby and a way for me to feel good. (I might shall add that the place trashing the story was in a forum that wasn't at the site I posted it, it was only in the same fandom. They didn't know I was a member in the forum either and that way thought their discussing about it wouldn't hurt. i did reply and hopefully the ones learned to think after before they trash anyone else story.)
Sorry for my long comment, but I hope you feel that you have things that does not matter what some say and you do continue to write.
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I do believe that the anon meme has a right to exist, and fans there have a right to discuss what they want, in the way they want. I don't participate there, but I do read it now and then, and mostly it's just fans being fans: bitching about the show, arguing about the characterization, dreading or squealing about spoilers, and so on. It's just a lot of blah blah blah, and for the most part there's nothing even that mean about it. (Though anonymity DOES give people the opportunity to be as cruel as they want, and some do take that opportunity for all it's worth.) On the whole, though, I don't understand the hate for it. It's just a fan place. And a lot of good has come out of it too.
Even the Big Bang threads... Yes, there's been a lot of bitchiness there, but I think it's good for readers to have a place to discuss how they really feel about fanworks, instead of feeling like they have to be positive or hide what they think. But... But, still.
I read the thread about my Big Bang (Coming Down on a Sunny Day), and it hurt me. Even though it wasn't really that critical, on the whole. Even though some people said they liked it, and other people gave reasons for why they didn't. On average, as you said, the reaction seemed to be "meh." And that bothered me. Because I worked so hard on that story, for so long, and I loved it so much. And it hurt to know that there were people out there who didn't like it, or didn't give it a chance because of the way I split up the chapters, or other stupid things like that, or just didn't care. It just...
Objectively, you know that there are going to be people who don't like what you write. OF COURSE. I mean, not everyone in fandom flocks to read gen AU Jimmy-centric kidfic. Duh. It's not everyone's cup of tea, and it's definitely NOT a lot of people's cup of tea. (Un-cup of tea? Un-tea? Whatever.) But when I stay in my own little corner, with my own happy little flist who loves me, it's easy not to think about that, not to acknowledge that. Plenty of people like what I do, and those who don't aren't even on my radar. So going outside my happy corner and running into that... Yeah, it hurts. Like hitting your head into a wall you didn't realize was quite so close. You knew it was there, and you thought you had time to get out of the way, but actually, no, you ran right into it at full speed.
And I'll be honest enough to admit that my hurt feelings did contribute to my loss of interest in fandom over the summer, along with my health problems and my general dissatisfaction with canon. I know I'm too sensitive, too thin-skinned, and I need to get over that. I know this is my problem, not the anons'. Still. It's hard to control the way you feel. Impossible, as a matter of fact.
And I can't help still being interested in what people are saying about me, even when I know it will probably hurt my tender little snowflake feelings. When I posted my minibang fic, I read the thread for that, too, even though I knew I shouldn't. (Again, some positive reviews, but mostly folks just didn't seem interested, and that hurts too.) If there's a thread about my reverse bang story, I probably won't be able to keep from reading that one too.
So... I guess I don't have any answers for you. But I want you to know that I understand exactly what you're saying and how you're feeling, and I wish you only the best. ♥ You're a fantastic writer, and I'm very glad you're in this fandom.
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And yes, mostly I realize that I am being a special snowflake and getting my feelings hurt over not very much.
I figure, though, if I can't bitch about it in my own LJ, then where? ;)
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I think faint praise is like a glowing review over there, if that makes it any better. ;-/
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I don't know what that says about me. ;)
(Also, someone there is paying attention to this LJ, because there's now a comment about this post, weirdly enough. *cringe*)
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If it makes you feel any better, the majority of the anons over there seemed to hate my BB, too. I think it's mostly that they hate all D/C fics.
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I don't even know. Maybe I'm too thin-skinned about this. :P
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What I'll say about fic "concrit" in the anon meme is that there's a general, unspoken idea circulating around that saying bad things about a fic in the anon meme makes you look smarter/cooler. It seems to have started with the great Haiti-Earthquake-J2 fic wank, which started out with almost everybody talking about how much they loved the fic until someone came along and said "holy crap, that's problematic". I think it's partially that no one wants to be the one to post good things about something that ends up in a wank storm.
If you want to see good things said about your fic, you have to hunt it down in alternate threads, like the general "which of the ____ fics are worth reading?" threads. Then you'll get someone going "I really liked that one about the ____ that was posted this year", and . . . that's it.
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(also, I'd like to take this moment to say that I read your story again this evening while I should have been working on reverse bang. Any chance we can see more further adventures of Sam, Cas, and wee!Dean?)
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Before my mini bang posted I was making myself sick over what the meme would say. Seriously. I was all over Twitter complaining about being nervous to post it, and though I didn't say so, the meme's possible reaction was the reason. The reason why is because I consider it "honest" feedback, and I was terrified to find out if my fic was "honestly" bad.
One of the best and worst things about fandom is that we're a culture of niceness. We encourage other people to create and want them to encourage us in turn. How many times have you read a fic that you went "ehhhh" to part of it, but in the end you focused only on the good in your review? Or, if it was a deal-breaking "ehhhh," you simply didn't review at all? There is this mass notion in fandom that, though most of us say we welcome CC, nobody actually wants to hear anything bad about their fic.
The threads at the anon meme can be cool. Think of it as, hm. Think of it as being able to eavesdrop on a conversation about you. They're not talking about you for your benefit, or even expecting you'll ever know about the conversation. They're just discussing you the way they see it, with no biases. That sort of thing, in fandom, is rare. Use these candid remarks to better your writing--they're constructive criticism!
I went and looked at your thread before commenting, and bb, don't worry. You have a great thread. Everybody who read it had something positive to say about it; those who didn't read it probably aren't your demographic anyway, for whatever reason they have. Don't be hurt--these aren't people who are reviewing your fic for your benefit. They're doing it to discuss it as a product of fandom. Hell, some of 'em may even be the same people who have already left comments for you on the fic itself, but for whatever reason were afraid of offending you. Most non-anon users censor themselves constantly; nobody wants to be "that bitch who always finds something wrong with fics." (Believe me, I've known a couple in my day, and I'm not proud to say I resented them sometimes. Culture of nice, remember? How dare she come onto my journal and tell me to my face that she didn't like the set-up for my story? How rude! Didn't your momma ever tell you that if you don't have something nice to say, better to...oh wait.) So the meme, then, becomes a place for people to say "I liked this, but..." without fear of being labeled "that bitch." -chuckles-
I don't know, man. It's up to you, how you decide to take the comments your thread over there gets. But me, I appreciate it. When my mini bang went live? Yeah, there were people who had issues with my story. There were people who said they didn't read parts of it (or all of it!) because of my secondary pairing. Then there were all of the people who said my Castiel characterization was off. And you know what? They were right. It is off. I knew that. I could tell, as I was writing my fic, that something was wrong. But then I ran out of time, out of steam, and called the story done. And my characterization was off. But you know what? Not a single one of the eighty people who commented un-anon to my fic mentioned that. Not one. But five people on the meme did. I appreciate every single one of the people who commented on my fic and told me that I'm amazing, don't get me wrong. I love all of them and am so grateful. But still, I also appreciate the nonnies who discussed my fic candidly, because I've learned from their reactions.
So, yeah. Don't feel hurt. Look at this as a unique opportunity. People! Talking about your fic! Constructive criticism! Yay! -sheepishly hopeful grin-
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I'm a little conflicted, honestly. Sure, I'd like to think that I'd take con-crit in stride, and some people on ff.net have actually done so and signed their names. In those cases, we've sometimes had a nice, productive dialogue about narrative choices and all that.
Then again, maybe I'm just another snowflake who'd get all my feathers ruffled if someone came into my LJ and told me my fic wasn't their cup of tea. I don't know.
(For what it's worth, I didn't notice the characterization problems in your BB, because it was AU and I was expecting the characters to be different. I was also maybe laughing too hard to notice. ;) )
And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn from a comment saying: "She didn't resolve the central mystery," when that was never my intention to begin with.
Meh. I'll make some hot chocolate, find a ladder and get over myself eventually. I'm apparently a delicate petal over here.
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But… three times now people from there have used socks to PM me links and quotes about me, two of the discussions in the last six weeks or so. And I just can't get my mind around that, because when a PM pops up with it all laid out there, it removes your choice over whether to go and look at it. And that's a drag. But that said, every time it has happened, people have jumped in and defended me there, which is great. I guess I do my best to focus on the positive… but I know how demotivated you must be. You're a great writer, and I hope you don't let this take away your enjoyment of that.
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The good part of this is that I am enough of a nobody in fandom that, obligatory Big Bang threads aside, I am unlikely to ever be mentioned there. Or, even if I am, no one is going to PM me with a link to it. :)
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And you know? You voiced the main criticism from the anon meme in your comment, and signed your name to it and the world didn't end! Uncanny. :P
I appreciate the extra validation, though. Thank you! :)