ratherastory | Gen Fic, for SCIENCE!

Although my vote may be bias because I barely read any gen fic like..at all. I think I've read 3 in my entire fandom life and 2 of them were yours so lol

SOOO I probably am not that well versed :P

Wow, that is really flattering!

*this is the sound of me converting everyone slowly over to gen fic*

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icelily01.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 00:51 (UTC) - Expand

Well, I chose other. I think gen fics definately can't have romance, but I do think that sex could possibly be involved as long as it's not really explicit(smut). Like I can imagine a gen fic that involves Dean flirting and going off with a waitress or something, but that isn't romance. Canon pairings can be mentioned but there shouldn't be any focus on the couple together plot wise. Like John and Mary Winchester are of course married, but as long as the fic isn't focused on thier relationship it's gen.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. So, implied sex is okay, but nothing explicit and no romance.

Food for thought.

Gen fic: A story that is rated anywhere from PG-R and does not focus on romance as the primary plot line.

That's a simple and reasonable definition.

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tahirire.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 00:47 (UTC) - Expand

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ratherastory.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 00:46 (UTC) - Expand

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tahirire.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 00:48 (UTC) - Expand

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ratherastory.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 00:49 (UTC) - Expand

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tahirire.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 00:50 (UTC) - Expand

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zoemathemata.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:29 (UTC) - Expand

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tahirire.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:39 (UTC) - Expand

If there is no explicit sex and the main plot of the story is not sex/romance related, it's gen in my book. Gen fics may involve incidental Dean/Random Chick, or references to canon pairings, but I consider that character development. If I write a story where Dean/Chick is the main idea, that's het. If I write 5,000 words about Sam and Dean hunting a ghost and the many complications of their partnership and throw in 50 words about one of the boys flirting (or even having offscreen sex), that's gen.

That's pretty much how I view it too, but comments in my other post suggested that even mentioning in a sentence that one of the boys went off with a girl to get laid automatically made the fic het, even if it's one sentence in a 75K-word fic.

So, clearly, there needed to be a poll.

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katwoman76.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:08 (UTC) - Expand

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ratherastory.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 02:29 (UTC) - Expand

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greeneyes-fan.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 03:02 (UTC) - Expand

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blacklid.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:53 (UTC) - Expand

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yggdrasilian.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 03:46 (UTC) - Expand

To me, there's an issue of length. Like, a very long gen story can have moments of romance or out-of-sight sex because then the other 95% of the story can be focused on the gen elements. For a short or mid-length story, I think it's difficult for there to be any real romance without that becoming a focus of the story. I do tend to see canon pairings working best with gen--and in SPN I would say that original character pairings are as much canon as anything else. I can't really see any story with, say, Dean/Cas or Sam/Jo or whatever being gen.

Though, that said, I read a lot in all three categories so it's not a matter of to-read or not-to-read but just the slot I place it in, in my head.

True. I hadn't considered length in the composition of my poll, nor did I consider the raging (G, PG, R, etc.). In retrospect, my poll is not at all comprehensive. Oops.

I think I'm not quite consistent on the background non-canon pairings. Seems to me that if one of the common non-canon pairings is there but in the background, convention is it counts as pairing fic: if Sam and Dean or Dean and Cas are a couple and it's mentioned and there's a quick goodbye kiss or something (though I don't really see either couple as into quick goodbye kisses), I'd probably still list it under Sam/Dean or Dean/Cas. On the other hand, characters/OCs where the romance isn't prominent I don't think would change the category for me if it's fairly casual, like the Dean and waitress example (and it wouldn't make a difference if it were Dean and a waiter, if Dean's sexuality were tangential to the story).

I find I'm not consistent either, frankly. Yet another reason why I decided to make this poll.

I always considered "Take Me Home" to be gen, but there's at least one sex scene, interrupted early on and definitely played up for the comedic value, but it's nonetheless sex. Does that make it het? Some would argue it does, yet it's about 500 words in a 54K-word fic.

So, yeah. In short, I don't know. :)

Anything that could become an episode of Supernatural. There can be sex, because Dean and Sam have both had sexy times, but none can be considered a "paring" & romance cannot be a main plotline.

You know what? It didn't even occur to me, but you make a good point. Everyone says the Show is gen, but the Show includes sexy tiems AND Dean being in a long-term sexual relationship with Lisa.

Huh.

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lunasky3.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:05 (UTC) - Expand

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quickreaver.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:05 (UTC) - Expand

In my view, canon pairings are fine and the stories can include non-explicit sex. Original characters can also be romantic/sex partners if done in the same manner as canon treats such.

Exactly. "Dean hooks up with Random Chick" isn't a canon pairing unless you're referring to one of the Chicks who did that on the show, but it's perfectly consistent with canon.

To me a general story does not have wincest and is not PWP. I've read some great stories like Mockingbird where the het so made sense to me and was a big part of the story and to me it was a general story.

I read wincest but I don't think of it as general. :)

Is it just wincest, though? What about slash? (Dean/Cas, Sam/Gabriel, whatever other non-wincesty pairings there are) How explicit does the sex have to be before you'll consider it no longer gen? Or does that not come into it?

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gidgetgal9.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

My definition of gen is still heavily influenced by ff.net, where gen is what is used when the story didn't fit into two categories. (Say, you have a fic that's action/adventure, drama, fantasy, humor and romance.) I finally went with "No sex, no romance, but background pairings are acceptable (canon OR non-canon)" after trying to define slash and het and then picking the opposite.

(slash/het - main characters of the story are romantically involved.)

I voted for No sex, but romance is okay as long as it's not the focus of any of the plots. But really I think its somewhere between "No sex, no romance but background pairings are acceptable (canon OR non-canon)" AND "No sex, but romance is okay as long as it's not the focus of any of the plots" for me. Essentially if all the characters are canon and are thrown together into a HET relationship (ie- Dean/Ruby) I'd be okay with it as long as it's not all smut. BUT really, if there's an already established relationship between two characters that are already romantic, then by all means gen fic would entail what is seen. Essentially, gen for me would match canon on the show(s) only it'd be no sex and mild romance and canon pairings....

And I've now been converted to the canon aspect of sex...

My 'Other' vote is this:
I classify Gen as something that could be aired during primetime TV, BUT NOT on HBO.

so, all eps of SPN, I would classify as Gen, even though there is sex [mention of, allusion to] in an episode.

True Blood on HBO? Definitely NOT GEN

But that's only my opinion!

So actual sex scenes can be present and the fic's still gen if the sex is rated TV-14?

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zoemathemata.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:47 (UTC) - Expand

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alexseanchai - 2011-01-10 01:48 (UTC) - Expand

The one that always gets me is established relationship fic (a fandom pairing, not canon)--in which the main characters are sexually involved, have been for a while, but because of the circumstances of the story, don't have any explicit sexual contact with each other, or even talk about sex (though they might talk about their relationship).

I don't write Wincest, but I've run into this with Holmes/Watson. It's hard to know how to label a story like that, because you feel like if you label it "gen," people will be annoyed that it has an explicit slash pairing at its center; but if you label it m/m, people will be annoyed that there's no sex....

The other one, for me, is UST-centric fic, where there's no explicit sex, or even discussion of sex, no pairings actually take place, but sexual tension is clearly the whole point of the story....Clearly, this one isn't gen, but I never know whether to rate such things PG--for what actually happens--or R--for what is implied....

I've never had that problem personally, but I can totally see how that would be an issue.

I think sex and romance can be in a gen story if it's not the point of the story. If the relationship is canon, especially. Like why I was wondering if my spnrarepairs fic was more Amelia gen than Jimmy/Amelia.

Throwing another opinion out there-

I think a lot of it depends on whether we're associating Gen with paring or rating. Because there can be rated R non-paring fic (Winchester/OC) and rated G paring (cannon or non, but I think we've mostly taken non-canon out for actual relationships) fic.

As long as romance wasn't the main plot, could these both be Gen? Or do we need a new word for one of them?

Food for thought.

Stories with no sex, no romance, no pairings at all, including canon pairings, and no mentions of any of the aforementioned at all
Definitely gen.

No sex, no romance, no pairings at all, including canon pairings, but mentions are acceptable
Definitely gen.

No sex, no romance, but background canon pairings are acceptable
I would usually label this gen, but a more accurate label would be the one...

vehemently? somebody, anyway, came up with, 'bob'. Pairings present and referenced but not explicit. (Don't ask me to explain the etymology.) My use of labels depends on audience: I am not linking to the etymology of bob every time I use the term, so I only label things bob when I'm posting to a comm that's proven to understand what bob is (read, links to the etymology of bob in the comm guidelines, section 'ship labels).

No sex, no romance, but background pairings are acceptable (canon OR non-canon)
Also bob.

No sex, but romance is okay as long as it's not the focus of any of the plots
I'd label it shippy fic if the romance is visible, gen if in my head the characters are anything up to and including fucking like bunnies but none of same is actually in the fic, but a more accurate label (depending on the story) might be 'squint', as in, it's shippy fic but only if you squint.

No sex, but romance can be one of the subplots
Shippy fic.

Shippy? I'm lacking in soooo much of my LJ lingo...

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alexseanchai - 2011-01-10 01:47 (UTC) - Expand

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quickreaver.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 01:51 (UTC) - Expand

The only this poll could be improved is with yet another distinction, between explicit sex, e.g. erotica and use of nc17 anatomy and activities, etc. and references to sex, e.g. adult situations similar to what censors would allow on a tv14 show.

From the comments I've been getting, I have come to the conclusion that I should have taken things like story length and rating (R vs NC-17) into account as well.

My poll was not nearly as scientific as I would have liked. :/

Re: sex or SEX?

blacklid.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 03:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: sex or SEX?

ratherastory.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 03:30 (UTC) - Expand

Re: sex or SEX?

4422shini.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 07:58 (UTC) - Expand

I've come to be of the opinion that gen fic is fic where, if there is sex, it's generally nonexplicit, and there to further the non-romance related plot. Ie. my big bang last year had a sex scene in it, but it was Ruby with Sam to get him to drink her blood, and not romancey at all.

Bascially, I go by the "it's not a romance story" rule of thumb. But, well, I'm also leaning towards being anti-pairing labels in general -- it seems to be the first thing that people use to define a fic these days, and I don't think that's always necessary. Just because a story might have some slashy moments doesn't mean it's defining characteristic is that it's a slash story. . . .

Romance is fine as a possible focus in gen but with no sex and no incestuous pairings. Any other pairings are fine so long as the sex is not hot and heavy. After all, you can't have romance without some kissing. The gen can have romance or not, what ever is necessary for the story. But I can understand why everyone may have a different opinion about what constitutes gen -- there are no hard and fast rules that I know of.

I agree to everything you just said.

Soooomeboooody watches Dexter. Did you like the newest season? I sure did.

Hee!

I figured somebody would get that.

I definitely liked this season. I wasn't sure about Lumen at first, but she grew on me.

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4422shini.livejournal.com - 2011-01-10 08:23 (UTC) - Expand

My personal definition of gen pretty much goes like this:

no explicit sex, but canon relationships (or, say, tendencies for one-night stands) are kosher as long as they're not the main focus of the fic. You might say I'm going by what COULD be canon compliant, so it'd vary depending on the source text. If I were more into fringe fandom, I could totally read a story involving Peter/Olivia's relationship issues, as long as it wasn't the focus...much like an episode of fringe would. (E.g. extraordinarily creepy case, followed by Olivia having a well-earned freakout over the fact that someone stole her life, and even when she got it back, everything felt tainted, including her relationship with him).

It also means that I'd be pretty cool with whatever is acceptable on network broadcast TV being called gen, though according to convention, I wouldn't refer to it as such.

Oh! And I also would consider *any* canonical pairing gen, as long as the sex wasn't explicit and it wasn't a romance-focused story*. (I know that some people would still call canonical same-sex pairings 'slash').

*Well, unless the focus of the original text was romantic. I'd have to think of that one some more. I mean, if we were talking about fic based off a romantic-comedy, I think I might call it 'gen' as long as it was within the bounds of the original story? And without the explicit sex?

TL;DR My main definition seems to be 'canonically-based' and 'non explicit'.

Mmm... interesting. I think I only read SPN gen (you converted me!!) so I'm probably not suited to opine on this but basically a SPN gen fic for me is one in which Sam and Dean care, defend and love each other desperately but not in a romantical, sexual or physical way. I guess in any fandom would be the same for me but with other main characters.

I should say romance or sex is also something I wouldn't expect in gen (though mentioned sex is okay, since Dean is Dean after all), but there are special cases:

For example, one of my favourite gen fics is "When it Was Over" by Faye Dartmouth. It's a really beautiful Sam-centric redemption fic in which Dean gets himself a girlfriend and even Sam is getting there. And it's definitely NOT het. I must admit I wouldn't have started reading that fic if I had been informed beforehand about the boy's involvement with OFC but I felt okay with it while reading it because it made sense and it was not what the fic was about.

And other good example of a special case is the Passenger 'verse by Kroki-Refur. The premise of this fic is that Dean is posessed by a demon and forced to rape Sam. But in spite of this neither Sam or Dean are sexually attracted to each other or love each other romantically. They are always just brothers, and the whole fic it's about getting over this terrible event and fixing thier bonds. For me, this story isn't wincest, it's totally gen too.

So... uhmm... I don't think I clarified anything for you, did I? But in some sense I think a gen fic is defined by its core and its goal, not by its romance or sex scenes. Even if most times this mean simply there isn't any romance or sex scenes at all!

/spam

So firstly I got really excited because I thought you meant you were writing a story about SCIENCE, but then I read further and I realized that the poll itself was the science, but still.

I guess I'd say that gen to me could still be a story with sex in it, but it's just not the main focus of the story.